But the story’s bigger than the byline, in this case. Rob’s on a mission, and there’s some big whopper issues attached to where that all started for him. Stuff like what’s good and bad about religion? Is there a God? And where do we go to find meaning in our lives? The kind of stuff that many like to file in the “don’t touch” drawer for entire lifetimes.
Rob’s also pulls back the curtains on some of the underlying emotional dynamics that drive addictions. He paints a wickedly crisp portrayal of the hidden struggles that can light the fuse on depression and problem drinking. I could’ve called this episode “Church & Booze,” because both were at the root of his low points. I happened to relate to alot in Rob’s story. Not only did I work in the addiction industry for 8 years, but both booze and religious zealotry made the highlight reels in my own upbringing. I actually think that helped us make a good on-air connection-but I’ll let you be the judge of that.
So, you get to hear how Rob made sense of all that. You also get to glimpse why moments like these turn lives around. They shake the very foundation of a person, beliefs, outlooks, hopes, dreams, and perspectives -everything can change in an instant. We’ve showcased a few of these “wake up calls” on the show. But man… Rob’s got one super legit wakeup call. It’s terrifying and mystifying and perhaps worth chewing on. It’s something he still draws on as a leader and family man to this day.
One final random thought this episode sparked in my head.
What I mean is we all have beliefs we like to imagine are serving us in the best possible ways. …Until that moment an event comes screaming out the blue to completely reset our story and perspectives. Once humbled, we can see how life forces our hand to inspire changes we might not otherwise be compelled to make. There seems a truth here. As an interviewer I feel privileged to get close to moments that after decades are still reverberating in people’s hearts. It’s awesome.
My interview with Rob got me thinking that perhaps our ancestors were just pointing out the ancillary benefits of radical discomfort. Struggle inspires change. Life encourages us to grow in this way. More broadly I see this as a commentary on the nature of freedom. We desire it, dream, plan, and scheme for it but aren’t so great at achieving it. And if we do achieve it, it’s typically fleeting as freedom by nature can’t be captured.
More often then not we get stuck in the lives we create to secure our freedoms. They become our cages, because we can’t help but fall short of lives that only exist in our dreams. So life helps out and knocks us on our ass from time to time. The unexpected difficulties knock us out of our spells. And in those brief moments we taste freedom. Freedom, in other words, is often felt on our knees.
Can’t we all relate to this idea in some simple way? Haven’t we all come through some screwed up event feeling better off? More prepared for life, or more grateful? We may not have expected it, but there it is anyway-a better life resulting. Rob’s story reminded me just how important it is to stay open to change -at least as best we can. I say open rather than “prepared” here, because change ain’t predictable. It’s not on anyone’s calendar and rarely welcome when it stops by. But if we can see the process of change as healthy, perhaps we won’t add struggle to our lives by trying to avoid it. Perhaps then won’t need a great flood or to be held at gunpoint to inspire growth. Maybe if we simply make the room to get uncomfortable in some tiny way each day we’ll remain flexible enough for life to flow through us as opposed to cutting us off at the knees.
Listen here ->>> http://bit.ly/ep-18-3bulletsinbuffalo
So I interviewed the Warrior Monk. What may be interesting to you is that Navy SEAL Commander Mark Divine and I actually have a past. A flash in the pan, so to speak. We were BUD/s class 170 together, which is Navy SEALs training for those of you who don’t know. Good god, was that really some 20 odd years ago! How does this happen?!
Honestly I don’t remember much about the folks I trained with. I can recall stupid shit like my instructors tossing my surfboard out my 2nd story barracks window, and being nicknamed “Sharkbait.” And being terrorized by an instructor nicknamed “The Antichrist” on a beach one late night. Large patches of my memory of training is gone. I think that’s because BUD/s is one long anxiety and pain dream. As a therapist now, I’m well aware of how stress impacts memory. Recall goes kaput. So I don’t have an inspiring tale of comradery to spin with Mark.
But I do recall one conversation.
I was a wreck when I checked into BUD/S. Most of us were. Stepping foot on base with some of the worlds most skilled and arguably dangerous people on earth will do that. Nothing you do is right, everything is wrong. You are perpetually playing catch up with operators who are masters at their games. It’s serious brain-busting stress. You’re also far away from home and missing your mother and girlfriend. At least I was.
Mark seemed different, however. He had a steadiness. The first week or two everybody sizes each other up. You’re wondering “who’s going to survive this mess?” I had a bead on Mark. He had a calm about him, something more than the act of playing it cool, which we all worked hard at. Not artifice. Imagine a group of scared mutts all lined up next to a Wolfhound. Mark was the Wolfhound. He had an “It quality” and I wanted to know what it was about. I made it a point to corner him and pick his brain. One day before breakfast I asked him about his life before SEALs. I went searching into him. He didn’t give too much away, except he was older and had real world experience. What struck me was his humility. He didn’t share much but he was gracious.
So here I am nearly two decades later interviewing the guy. Funny how that works. It feels like a Back To Future Episode. Mark and I went our separate ways. Mark graduated as the top student in our BUD/S class – a mere 13 of the original 86 or so original class members crossing the finish line I believe. I on the other hand rang the bell and ended up cleaning dolphin crap at Sea World a few years later. Mark went on to become a decorated Navy SEAL Commander before retiring to pursue a business career.
I recorded a story about the craziness that ensued after BUD/s and my military career. You can listen to that here ->>> Failing On Purpose
Mark’s whip smart and intuitive which means he was always two steps ahead. Mark understands change, so he could talk to his own process. Having tasted the challenges he’s endured, I know it’s not an act. He’s got a wisdom born from epic challenge-and I personally think that means something in today’s story-selling world. He’s a devoted learner, so his passion surrounding his personal evolution is evident too. He opened up about some of the family challenges connected with his first entrepreneurial venture out of SEALs, a brewing business. There was emotion there, which Mark suggested was indicative of the damage caused. He talked about extricating himself from the fallout that mess, so that could be valuable for you folks. As far as my take home. Well, I confirmed what I sensed nearly two decades ago. Mark’s the real deal I got a bonus with the chance to mix a meditation on the battlefield scene. Stay tuned for that tasty bit.
After publishing, I decided I’m going to produce a few more Warrior Stories. We’ve going to do series on elite warriors who went from the battlefield to CEO. The lives of warriors offer a glimpse of wisdom forged in the fires of life and death challenges. And also insight into the mindsets needed to rise to that level of service. I think it’s compelling material. But then there’s the also fact that I also like mixing war scenes.
Next Up is Brent Gleeson, another Navy SEAL turned CEO and author of Taking Point.
We’re got a bead on two more Navy SEALs- Jocko Willink and David Groggins. But they are both Hail Mary’s. It’s a wait and see. If you have suggestions for elite warrior guests, shoot me an email at [email protected]
Props to our Video Director Dan for this epic spin. It’s quite the video trailer. Why’s it seem the trailers are so much better since I put him in charge?…
Strap in folks.